Suggestion for App Dashboard / Hierarchy View from left Menu

[B_Sp]

Hi Guys,

@mdubakov would love to get your take on whether you guys might think about some view like this as a way to bring some more usability into Fibery for viewing an App Hierarchy?

What I’m suggesting here is allow one of the areas in the App Home area, perhaps a new one called "App Dashboard, where you could display an existing hierarchy with much more detail from the one we have no in the left menu:

I think a great implementation would be similar to what we see in Wrike or TargetProcess - which perhaps you actually developed!, haha. For the benefit of the community here’s what they look like:

Wrike:

TargetProcess:

And again, for the benefit of the community as I don’t need to tell you guys this , TargetProcess implementation is even more relevant as you get a hierarchy with actual different columns in each level. That is what I’m hoping for here in Fibery because of the Type customization, since the fields won’t be the same as you move down the hierarchy, whereas in Wrike, which is a more limited system where entities of Tasks and Projects are basically the same, the columns filter down the entire hierarchy. Still, the collaspable/expandable view in Wrike is a basic element of a good hierarchy, so wanted to show that one.

Thanks for the consideration, and eager to hear anything you can offer on what you’re thinking around hierarchy!

[mdubakov]

In this place hierarchy view will work only for Admins. We are going to add Hierarchy View in near future (1-2 months).

However we do want to add real data into app settings somehow in future, since people not always get the idea of Types.

[Jean]

yeah, i think adding sample data on apps will help people understand everything easier. Doing a video for each app and how can be used and customized will also be extremely useful to increase adoption. If most users are like me, they try a few apps in parallel and will end up with the one that helps them accomplish the things they have in mind the easiest.

[B_Sp]

Michael, thanks for weighing in.

I don’t have a particular opinion about where the Hierarchy View would wind up, I just suggested that area as it’s “open” so-to-speak. But that makes sense I realize now that we are looking at the Admin part of the app - as an Admin, I just take for granted that it’s always there!

If you are willing, could you share if this “hierarchy table” concept that Wrike/TargetProcess are using is the direction you guys are thinking about?

Also occurs to me that hierarchies are relevant on a Type level, and not just App, since you can configure Types to have “sub” items from anywhere in Fibery. You guys have these great Context Views that can be shared by each Type, so maybe you’re thinking about having an additional view called “hierarchy?” Or perhaps just an additional part of the Table view that would allow for it to be expanded?

Sorry for the proliferation of questions, but very eager here as this is a big part missing for my team in Fibery, and since you guys are going to tackle it soon, very curious about what direction your going!

Thanks again!

[Oshyan]

@mdubakov

In this place hierarchy view will work only for Admins. We are going to add Hierarchy View in near future (1-2 months).

However we do want to add real data into app settings somehow in future, since people not always get the idea of Types.

I think there are perhaps two distinct concepts being talked about here, and I want to take a moment to differentiate between them and outline an approach that seems to make sense in my mind.

First, we have the current views, settings, etc. for an App. This is accessible from the front-end with the config button to the right of an App in the side menu. This is, as you say, for admins only.

Then, in relation to this you talk about adding “real data into app settings… since people don’t always get the idea of types”. If I understand you correctly you are still talking about views and info only for admins, which I think is not what the original feature request here was about. So here comes my suggestion, which relates back to that.

This brings us to the Second concept, which is what happens when you click on an App in the menu. Well, it just collapses. Personally I think this is not ideal. I like very much being able to collapse them, but I think the collapse function should be separate from a click on the App name itself. Perhaps as a “caret” to the left as with Promoted Entities and Folders, or perhaps on the Right.

Instead of current approach, I would suggest that, just as clicking on a Promoted Entity gives you a view of that entity’s page, clicking on an App could do something similar for front-end users. And that gets us then to some of the ideas that I think @B_Sp is talking about above of making the App “view” have useful content for front-end users, and maybe even act as a “home” for that App’s data and work.

This would harmonize with existing functionality easily, I think, provided you simply move the “collapse” function to its own small button (left or right), and then hide the “Configure” button on Apps for non-admin users.

So, in summary: make Apps clickable to access view of their data/work (maybe “dashboard” for that app?), move “collapse” option left or right into a button. That gets us the “App View” for front-end users. Then you “just” need to figure out what goes into it.

Same goes for Add “Description” area to apps created from Scratch

[B_Sp]

Thanks for this very succinct way of summing up the problem, well said and much better than I could have conveyed!

[B_Sp]

Just wanted to jump back in here and refresh this post as Smart Folders have given some potential great solutions here. In fact I probably should have put this post:

CHANGELOG: October 15 / Smart Folders, Intercom & GitHub Integrations

Hey Guys, Very pleased with Smart Folders so far! Eagerly anticipated feature, and I don’t think I could have expected more. In particular I’m super impressed on how you can now see children entities from other apps. One of the things I have very high hopes for when you get to Hierarchy View ( more on that below ). I had a couple of points re: Smart Folders: Could you provide some information on how these Type Hierarchies generate? [Image 2020-10-19 at 10.46.13 PM.png] In my Fibery I c…

In this thread.

Falling back on the capabilities of Discourse to do some Fibery-esque cross-linking and Highlighting with this incidentally…

[Oshyan]

Hmm, is this now essentially solved, or “the can kicked down the road” in a way, with the Smart Folders, Hierarchy in Lists Views, and the changes to Spaces overview (which needs some further work in itself, but becomes a different problem, or different solution at least than the one proposed here). What do you think @B_Sp ?

[calh-fsp]

@Oshyan - this appears to be two separate “needs” in my mind.

1. Display of hierarchies - I agree this is possibly solved with the introduction of Smart Folders. This is one of my favorite features in Fibery at this point.
2. Communicating to users “what is the intention of this Space” - this still seems to be a gap in my opinion. The read.me file as the first item in a Space is a workaround, when it reality a Space “overview” or “dashboard” would be valuable in summarizing and communicating quickly to users the purpose and status of things in this Space.

[Oshyan]

I agree with the distinction, however the way I read this request it is a more specific suggestion for the more general concept of an “app dashboard”, which B_Sp has a more general request as well for here:

[APPROVED] Add "Description" area to apps created from Scratch

Hi, When creating an app from Scratch, I’d like to be able to add the third area called “description,” next to “Types” and “Access” that I’m seeing in the pre-loaded apps that are in the App Store. Unless this is something I’m missing, could you add this capability? It would be very useful to have a general overview type area with each app that explains its use to users. Thanks guys!

So I’m basically saying, the specific approach to the problem (dashboard/description) that this topic represents is probably A: not ideal overall, and B: somewhat solved by Smart Folders anyway, so it could perhaps be closed in favor of the more general one above (which btw has a lot of interesting discussion on that overall concept if you haven’t yet reviewed it). In other words this feature request is a sort of sub-request of the other.

Oddly neither of these Feature Requests have any votes.

[B_Sp]

Hey @Oshyan and @calh-fsp appreciate the discussion here! I would vote for both of these requests in fact, but I’m out of votes!

I still would like to both see the capability I described in this post - ie the ability to see a good range of entities in a Space/App on that Space’s homepage, as well as the Space’s description. Our Fibery is now 2 1/2 years old, and we’ve had multiple changes to some key Spaces and it would be good to be able to write this up in the description area, show references, etc. Not to compare again to Notion, but it is nice in Notion to be able to basically configure a Page as an HQ of sorts that in a lot of ways winds up working for users the same as Spaces. When you have Spaces highlighted on the left nav, with their own logos, the default reaction by most users is to click that and get to a “homepage” of the Space. Since that’s happening, it would be very useful to have the Space’s homepage be able to act more like one, and not just a place to configure the Space as is the current case.

Thanks again for the commentary, and I would still like to see these tweaks in the Fibery UI for better usability!

[Oshyan]

OK, so just to be clear: the solution to this feature request (this topic) and the broader “app dashboard/description” need is probably a block-based Page that can be set to show by default for non-admins when clicking a Space, right? That way you could for example just add a Table or List to show the Content (Entities, etc.) within the Space that you want to show, along with a block for description, a comment/updates block, etc, etc. That should meet all the needs raised, right?

[B_Sp]

For me, as long as Spaces have the big emphasis in the left nav, and generally a huge function in Fibery, they should have their own “homepage” with the various content I’ve described, such as activity stream of some sort, customizable splash area, etc. Notion’s solution is to let you create a page, then turn it into basically the hub of sorts that each Space represents in Fibery. I’d prefer that as long as Spaces are around, they have the ability to be customized better and function as real hubs for the db’s and entities within.

I’m not 100% sure if I’m getting this right since I haven’t been comparing tools too much these days, but I think in Notion’s case they start with basically the db level, there is no notion of a “space” like in Fibery. So if Fibery ultimately did the same, and did away with Spaces, yes your solution would be the way to do this. I actually don’t find much use for Spaces anyway, since - and this is a big plus of Fibery - you can configure relations across all of Fibery without really needing to factor in Spaces at all. I find Spaces useful as a way to group db’s, and particular the Spaces Map is a great feature that is unique to Fibery. But otherwise Spaces seem to go against the rest of the flexibility of Fibery, and the fact that you have them sticking out to users, but not really useful to anybody but an Admin when you click on them, is something from a UX point of view that I think could be improved.

Thanks!

[Oshyan]

@B_Sp

I’d prefer that as long as Spaces are around, they have the ability to be customized better and function as real hubs for the db’s and entities within.

But… what, exactly, does this mean. And particularly, what does it mean that is different than what Notion can do, or what Fibery will be able to do once full blocks functionality and e.g. table embeds are available? If you could basically just literally create/pick a page that would be shown to non-admins when clicking on a Space (and for admins there’d be a button that linked to it for editing, along with all current Space editing functions), then what need is not met, in your view?

@B_Sp

So if Fibery ultimately did the same, and did away with Spaces, yes your solution would be the way to do this.

Not that I necessarily disagree with doing this, but I also want to point out that doing away with spaces is not a requirement for handling things in the way I’ve described. Maybe that’s where the misunderstanding is coming from?

@B_Sp

the fact that you have them sticking out to users, but not really useful to anybody but an Admin when you click on them, is something from a UX point of view that I think could be improved.

This is a super important point: the argument for Spaces is in good part their use as an organizational and navigation primitive/metaphor. But that breaks down significantly when they can’t really be used very much by normal, non-admin users.

[calh-fsp]

TL/DR: instead of forcing a block-based Page as the Space page, consider a Pin to Space feature allowing admins to choose a View, Report, Page, Whiteboard or Document as the default display of the Space for non-admin users.

@Oshyan

OK, so just to be clear: the solution to this feature request (this topic) and the broader “app dashboard/description” need is probably a block-based Page that can be set to show by default for non-admins when clicking a Space, right?

@Oshyan, your synopsis is aligned with my request. Having a fully block-based Page (with all View block options) as the default Space page for non-admin users would provide the flexibility and outcome to fulfill this request (just as @B_Sp mentioned and you replied).

Though now that I’m thinking about it and at the risk of introducing more complexity to this request, how might the solution look if Fibery gave admin users the flexibility to choose WHAT should be displayed by default when non-admin users click on a Space? Bear with me here. If Fibery simply accepts the proposed solution of having the Space default to a block-based Page, what happens when the next wave of users or current users begin requesting the ability to show a View or Report as the default Space page?

This leads me to propose an evolution of this request. Provide admin users the ability to Pin a View, Report, Page, Whiteboard, or Document to the Space to be used as the default Space page for non-admin users. The ability to Pin to Space seems like an easy way to accomplish the original request for a Space Page/Dashboard, but also to minimize the amount of development effort required of the Fibery team as this solution utilizes existing View, Reports, Pages and Documents. The only new requirement needed for Pin to Space is for the app to display the Pinned thing and incorporate an “Edit Space” button at the top right of the page or in the Space more menu in the left nav, only available for admin users.

Which Space non-admin default do you prefer?

• Block-based Page works for me
• Pin to Space would be amazing

[Oshyan]

Yeah, I think that suggestion makes a lot of sense. A block based page would actually meet most if not all of those needs (you can just put a Chart block onto a Page, for example), but since people are using Read.me’s already, and who knows what the future holds, I agree that being able to just link/“pin” any single “entity” (page, doc, etc.) to the Space, or perhaps rather “redirect” (?) for non-admin users, does seem like the best solution and hopefully low(er) effort from a dev perspective.

[mdubakov]

This problem will be resolved with new Page mostly.
non-creators always redirected to the first view in the Space, so if readme is the first page, it will work fine as a dashboard. So no new functionality is needed to cover this case