References reloaded

At first sight, your solutions for ‘Modify Reference selection’ and ‘References can overlap’, sufficiently address the topic. Is there any challenge that you expect for those solutions?

Other than that, since this appears to be a generic topic about the ‘new’ References, maybe its useful to ask a question that I for convenience gave a new topic: Does the new Reference Entity cover these issues?

Hey there. Yes, I’m finding that now. I was hoping some uber-users might have workarounds but I guess it’s copy/paste for the moment. The challenge I’m having is copying and pasting in different spaces and keeping track of the proper URLs for each. I think Fibery has an amazing foundation and a bright future.

You know what I’m missing the most of all after using? A developer plug-in community. I’ve seen some really bright people posting interesting solutions and workarounds (including you!) and there are certain functionalities that I would have my team build (as apps maybe, I still haven’t gone done the path of their API enough, though it appears promising) and share with the community. I’ll check out your transclusions post.

I’ve used a few apps that identified everything as bullets and found Obsidian’s way very flexible (not bullets). However, that may simply be because I didn’t use the bullet method enough. I’m thinking of using in Docs (or whatever emulates docs) and showing things as paragraphs, etc.

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I merged it here because I want to keep all related conversations in this topic. I hope you don’t mind.

Thanks for your questions.

The Reference entity has the functionality you mentioned. The feature description lists all of the fields that are needed, including:

  • Reference source, which is automatically added when the reference is created,
  • One or more reference targets,
    and these will make bidirectional relationships between the source and targets.

The Reference entity will be a separate database and be integrated into the search, filter, report, and notification systems. We still need to solve some riddles before implementing your use case, but the overall goal is similar to what you described.

The visual representation of the Reference entity is not yet clear, but I can clarify a few things in the document based on your question.

Thanks again.


I think our competitors have covered this topic well. I like how Dovetail solved it, but there are still some UI challenges we need to think about. These two features will not affect any Reference entity-related questions, but they will improve the current state of Reference creation.


1 special thing I release when moving to fibery: Reference ⇄ Atomic note concept in PKM
for more details, you can reference about building pkm in this article Building a Second Brain: The Illustrated Notes


With regard to the New References, are you considering how field tokens play a role in that?
See also July 20, 2023 / Experimental 🥹 new Grid View and 🏛️ Columns Layout in Docs - #31 by Yuri_BC

Please help me with examples. Thanks.

The integration of a token system could further enhance this New Relation/References feature in several ways:

  1. Field Combination: As discussed earlier, tokens could allow users to combine fields from different entities, including relations/references. This means that you could display information from a relation’s fields alongside the entities it connects, all within a single cell or card.
  2. Nested Relations: If relations can contain other relations, a token system could help navigate and display this complex, nested data structure. For example, you could use tokens to display information from a relation within a relation.
  3. Custom Formatting: Tokens could allow users to control how relation data is displayed. For example, you could use tokens to define the format of a date field within a relation, or to control the display order of multiple fields within a relation.
  4. Dynamic Views: Tokens could be used to create dynamic views that change based on the state of a relation. For example, you could use tokens to display different information based on whether a relation is empty or contains certain data.
  5. Automation and Logic: If tokens are used in automations, they could also be used to automate tasks or apply logic based on the state of a relation. For example, an automation could be triggered when a relation is added or removed, or when a field within a relation meets certain criteria.

In summary, the integration of a token system could greatly enhance the flexibility, power, and user-friendliness of Fibery’s new relation feature. It would allow users to manipulate and display relation data in a wide variety of ways, making the system more adaptable to their specific needs.

Sorry, I mean real use case examples you would like to solve currently, but you cannot because of Fibery limitations.

About Reference entity topic
when I read this
Some kinds of things pop up in my head. This name field basicly Ontology define in Compass Framework, this define relationship type between 2 entities. In obsidian, Excalibrain plugin does it as page level (meanings entity level), But with current dovetail can do, we can apply this as higher level (block level) in fibery
this link describe exactly ontology meanings'sVisualPersonalKnowledgeManagement
and the way it display right relationship in Obsidian by plugin called Excalibrain'sVisualPersonalKnowledgeManagement
Hope this can help in Reference creation or even a basic graph view

Related to References Reloaded:



The new reloaded reference will be an entity, which would allow a relation fields to contain such popup information (e.g. a summary field), as well as fields of other linked entities at the same time in one popup. Think for example when an inline task reference could show through a popup its Project, the project team members, related tasks, status, all at once.

Also related:

@kalman this is great news and I just noticed your post! I have made many suggestions around references here in the forum, I hope you have read some of them. Sorry I am in a rush now, I will come back later and try to do a better job “referencing” what I’ve suggested, but here are a few:

Ability to quote text across Fibery like in Discourse
For Activity Stream, ability to see in chronological order References & Comments


I hope some of this stuff can be implemented in the new version of references, which already are one of the differentiating features of Fibery. Thanks!

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do we have any release timeline for implementing this, this took an really important part for our research processs, and seriously I’m really looking for this appear on timeline

As it says in the original post, this is something in consideration for the second half of this year, so fingers crossed.

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Thanks for joining the discussion! Here’s a quick response to your points:

Saving Highlighted Text in a Reference Database in Markdown Format
We are planning to save highlighted text in a separate reference database, and it will be in Markdown format. This means the highlight won’t update automatically if the original text changes. For instance, if you quote something like “the customer loves the red color,” and later, the original text changes to “the customer hates the red color,” the meaning of your quote would change too. We think it’s important to notify the person who created the reference if the original text changes so it can be reviewed and updated it as needed.

We plan to save the quoted text without links (since we cannot follow them) or images, replacing them with placeholder text.

Organizing References Chronologically
We are also working on organizing reference entries in a database. This will allow you to view them in a list and create formulas, automation, and reports. I believe this will address most of your concerns.

Feel free to ask if you have more questions.


After a long radio silence, we have begun developing the Reference Creation and Settings feature. While there are still some moving parts, the core concept is finalized.

Please watch the video that explains how the Reference creation will work.

This is the right time to provide feedback on the functionality and flow of the feature.


Seriously I’m really waiting for this, day by day, week by week to looking this release. I dont know how Thursday evening become my routine to check the release weekly.
I just watched the demo, that’s really make a fantastic move when It can solve both pkm and user feedback
Really looking for this week release. Anyway thank you for your team

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You might want to dampen down your enthusiasm :wink: I don’t expect there will be a release of this functionality for a couple of months yet, at least.

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