Let me clarify this idea. Databases will not be visible for non-admins and non-creators, so usual users will not see them in any case.
For creator it is just a faster way to jump to Space Setup mode. In fact new Space Setup is just a set of databases (+ some additional actions that can be moved to … menu for Space), so why not merge Space Setup with the usual menu? You click Show Databases button, work on space setup, then click Hide Databases button and get back to your usual sidebar state.
Also for completely NEW users Database concept is hidden now, and they quite often struggle to understand that Database is not a View. With this new design we hope it will be clear.
Aaah now i see. So it’s merging the new Space Creator in the Normal Side mode. Can I suggest calling the toggle “Creator Mode”? I honestly quite like the distinction between the 2 modes at the moment.
For new users, I feel this will make databases feel even more like a view, because they do not know know that only they (creators) have this toggle. So they might leave it and expect the users to be able to just press like they do.
I feel like this “Space Creation” is going through a lot of iterations recently. I think you’d benefit from analysing how Airtable interfaces has gone about it. I think its the closest to this in a way. It is very clear when you are in the interface config vs in the interface itself. Implementing something like this has the potential to give more features and complex options to the creators, but still having most user enjoy the simplicity of Fibery. It goes more in the direction of a no-code app builder (which I personally love, but may not be the direction you want at the moment).
Potentially having the front end for creators to be the same as for editors, and then they need to go into creator mode in order to toggle fields or change global filters (adds more clicks so idk). It’ll just make clear what others are able to do. Not sure how big of a problem this really is though. Maybe a “View as” could also solve? I hope this is helpful. Just sharing my thoughts.
We indeed had many requests to add Creator Mode, but all such requests are very generic and not many things are specific. What to hide in non-creator mode? So far I have only this list:
Databases
New Field actions
Delete Field actions
Maybe you have some other ideas? To me it is hard to justify adding new mode just for these 3 things.
Non-creator mode will be what editors see. Some differences:
No reordering fields
All View settings (sort, global filters, etc)
No creating new views in sidebar
Yeah there isn’t too much actually. Maybe just a “View as” could solve this problem as well. Where “creator mode” is default for those with permissions.
But I will note that even though there are not many things to hide at the moment, like I said, it could give potential to add functionality and features to the creators. Things that could add clutter if added to everyone’s view.
Things from Airtable:
In view:
config user actions per view (toggle search, filter, sort, group, add records from form) (Side note, editors seeing the “Sort” button, but not being able to sort isn’t ideal… gives them hope!)
Add or remove “Add” button from top right. (Plus set which form for adding)
Allow / disallow users to add records in line (and force only adding via form)
Allow opening of record
In Entity:
make field groups
visibility rules
In relationships, set if allowed to add record, link record, both, or none.
Add buttons (really powerful actually, not limited to database actions, but also UI actions)
Add charts into into item
There’s more but I wont get into it. Is it too many options that are quite hidden unless you click on an element? Yes. Does it allow for flexibility and complete control over what you build? Also yes. Can Fibery do it better? I really think so.
This would not be possible without having a seperate “creator mode” or “set up mode”.
The down side is that it’s more clicks to make changes. It’s no longer just toggling a field. It’s going into creator mode, finding the database, toggle the field, go back to actually edit the field.
These things can also just be added to normal Fibery (not creator mode) but only show for creators. Then they could toggle “View as editor” if they want a more streamlined view. Honestly now that I’m typing I think this I think its the best of both worlds, as it doesn’t force to go back and forth for small changes. At least until there are many features for creators that are blocked due to making things too cluttered.
Just my thoughts. Hope it brings you some value.
EDIT:
Another tool that could be interesting to compare is Budibase. Fibery’s design is miles better, but Budibase also has the same “Creator mode” vs “User”. Again, its a low-code app builder for internal tools (they also have interesting pricing). Not sure if thats the direction Fibery wants to go in, but I think it has potential in the space.
I was referring to creator vs editor.
Admins automatically get “Creator” role for all spaces. So all the Admin functions you mentioned are actually from creator, not admin privileges. Except for “Spaces I’m not explicitly a member” but all spaces are automatically creator privilege for admin and thats not currently changeable I think.
It’s true that an Admin is automatically a Creator but a Creator is not automatically an Admin.
As an Admin, you can configure the permission of a User to Creator for a specific Space. But he is not necessarily an admin. So the switch will work in different manner depending of your higher role.
That’s why I say that if I switch from Admin to Creator, I should not be able to see the stuff from “Spaces where I’m not explicitly a member”.
And I think that this switch should only be possible for Admins and Creators. I think it don’t make sense for Editors and below permissions.
Yep, same here! In our case, it would be used for allowing clients into their own projects and tasks, but before opening up potentially sensitive data we’d need to vet the heck out of it first.
It makes me wish for a “preview” functionality of how a space would look to a Guest – of course we could create a Guest using a personal email account, etc, but since it’s the Christmas season I’m just throwing out wishes
Filter side nav items (which I have nagged about a lot on the forum)
Ability to set default order of spaces for all other users
Nice-to-haves:
Custom Sections (ability to separate Spaces in custom made sections)
All the other proposed changes are certainly interesting and I’m sure Fibery team has put a lot of thought into them; however, we just want a more straightforward way to locate items within the side nav’s current design and keep the layout cohesive across other member instances.
Then, the ability to view as other users would be a great first start in ensuring cohesiveness as well as validate permission assignment.
Modeless is best when user intent can be captured/detected explicitly. In the example in your linked article (mobile phone UI), a phone call comes in, the user gets a notification and can choose to answer it, etc. This makes perfect sense and is what allows mobile phones to do 1000 things with minimal issues. Modeless is not necessarily best when user intent is ambiguous and must be inferred or otherwise “detected” through means which cannot be 100% reliable/accurate because this creates the circumstances for incorrect inference/“guessing” and thus user frustration and even lost work in some specific cases. Can Fibery always “know” with confidence what the user wants?
Obviously this is a somewhat general comment, not pointing at any specific thing Fibery is doing “wrong” in trying to be modeless. Rather I’m just defending the concept of modal to help avoid bias in consideration of UI/UX changes. It is the right choice in some cases (and Fibery does already make use of it, of course).
Like others have mentioned, getting started with Fibery’s guest access features can be challenging. A guide showing different guest access templates and their real-world applications would be extremely valuable.
Currently, I need to set up client portals using Fibery’s guest feature, but I’m uncertain about how to implement it.
So, I think it’s going to be popular when it becomes easier for everyone to use them.
Like @Oshyan, I think there can be a value to modes, but perhaps when done correctly and conservatively. In a modeless system, there can be an inverse relationship between number (or complexity) of features and UX. I really see the value of modes for a system like Fibery where one set of users is focused on the system itself (i.e. admins) and another set of users are focused on the content of the work (marketing, bug fixing, etc.). This is why I like the current “configure space” solution. It groups a lot of the system-focused functions in a place where those functions won’t be crowded by the content-focused functions.
Perhaps there’s a way to put all of this in the sidebar that isn’t too cumbersome, but I struggle to think of a way that doesn’t rely on the “modes” idea. In particular, I’m worried that the … menu will become overpopulated with options.
