# \[DONE\] 🎬 New Apps Creation flow, new getting started flow, new terms **URL:** \ **Category:** Ideas & Features\ **Created:** [October 26, 2021, 7:00am UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148 "2021-10-26T07:00:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mdubakov](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/mdubakov/32/10_2.png) [@mdubakov](https://community.fibery.io/u/mdubakov)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/41 "2021-11-05T13:44:29Z")
Almost Done! 🤞 [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/fibery/original/2X/b/bcf73b9c856a4874140ee5c512229fa7cb9caa59.jpeg "New Space (former App) creation flow") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA3yzO6pwuQ) ---
**Author:** ![Matt\_Blais](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/matt_blais/32/1464_2.png) [@Matt\_Blais](https://community.fibery.io/u/Matt_Blais)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/42 "2021-11-05T14:54:22Z")
Very nice - very clear! 💖 ---
**Author:** ![Oshyan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/oshyan/32/11431_2.png) [@Oshyan](https://community.fibery.io/u/Oshyan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/43 "2021-11-05T17:08:01Z")
This is looking much more clear and straightforward! I am hopeful this will increase adoption/retention. Great work! ---
**Author:** ![rothnic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/rothnic/32/1850_2.png) [@rothnic](https://community.fibery.io/u/rothnic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/44 "2021-11-05T18:44:32Z")
Looks great. The one thing I noticed that confused me a bit was the primary CTA at the top right from the table, right next to the “new field” button. For some reason it kind of feels a little outside or separate from the table. I think the initial naming of the database to “New Database” highlighted it though ("+ New New Database"), so I could just need some time to unsee that. It also might help to somehow support calling it the “Task” database, but then use the plural form in the interface. Since the heading is a singular “Task”, then a CTA of “+ New Task”, it seems to add a little uncertainty of what is going on. But yeah, overall it is looking much more approachable. Edit: Here is a visual of what I’m talking about ![db_project_fibery](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/fibery/original/2X/7/73de3825d2a04fb3754ec78b457723e56c1aa83a.jpeg) ![db_project_fibery](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/fibery/original/2X/a/ade72164542a5cfcff681765f9e474ae2f093e90.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![mdubakov](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/mdubakov/32/10_2.png) [@mdubakov](https://community.fibery.io/u/mdubakov)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/45 "2021-11-05T19:14:34Z")
These are all good points. New XXX button can be helpful if the table is long, but we will see whether it is helpful. Maybe we will remove it. “New New Database” is a nice catch 🙂 Also it is interesting observation about Database name vs Database Table. We did not think it will be perceived this way, but it seems it is. We will think how to fix that. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![rothnic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/rothnic/32/1850_2.png) [@rothnic](https://community.fibery.io/u/rothnic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/46 "2021-11-05T19:26:02Z")
> [@mdubakov](#): > > New XXX button can be helpful if the table is long, but we will see whether it is helpful Oh, I do think that is worth having in some way or another. I think just making the name plural would help a lot in avoiding confusion. Maybe that could cause name conflicts, but it seems like a pretty common practice in headless CMSs I’ve played around with. Another option would be to just remove the table heading there completely, instead of making it plural. You already have a heading for it accounted for in the tab right? Edit: Not sure about how it looks overall without, but this feels a little less complicated. ![db_project_fibery](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/fibery/original/2X/1/1f616d678db723583573e727ccb4022a6fae01b5.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Jean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@Jean](https://community.fibery.io/u/Jean)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/47 "2021-11-06T15:03:23Z")
I agree with @rothnic , the New New looks confusing. I’m wondering if the “New x” button will be used at all, it might confuse new users and also might give the impression that’s the main view to work on, not a “configuration” view. I think most users will use this new view for 2 reasons: configure their space and have an overview of the data, i don’t think it will be used to create new items … ---
**Author:** ![NicolSpies](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/nicolspies/32/4317_2.png) [@NicolSpies](https://community.fibery.io/u/NicolSpies)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/48 "2021-11-06T19:55:14Z")
I have worked through Michael’s video and translated some of the new object names from the video narration in order to clarify the abstraction for myself. This post adds a possible perspective from a semi-technical fibery user that has some exposure/knowledge of traditional relational database concepts. `The terms in bold below are standard terms used in relational database design.` - The video is about a Project Management process. Information related to this company process is grouped in a collection called a space in fibery. - A **space** in fibery can also be called a **database** containing all the information related to a specific company process. - The project management **database** (called a space in fibery) in the video contains two **tables** (called databases in fibery); a project table and a task table. A table is a two dimensional object storing data, organized in rows and columns. Each row represents a unique **record** and each column represents a **field** in the record. - In the video two **tables** (called a databases in fibery) stores records of a specific things, projects and tasks. - In the case of the **project table** (database) in the video each row represents a different project and each field of a row defines information of the specific project. - In the case of the **task table** (database) in the video, each row represents a different task and each field of a row defines information of the specific task. - It is possible to define **relations** between the **tables** (called databases in fibery) in a **database** (called space in fibery). The relations can be **one-to-one, one-to-many and many-to-many**. \*In the video a project in the **project table** (database) may have many tasks stored in the **task table** (database) so a one-to-many relation exists between the **tables** (databases). - The automations in fibery can be viewed as a type of **stored procedure** that can be stored for later used to be executed manually using a button or by a defined trigger. - **Views** are used to combine and visualize data from different **tables** (databases). The **view** does not store the data, it just maps and displays it using a number of different objects (table, board, list, timeline, calendar, document, report etc.) - Records in **tables** (databases) are uniquely identified by the Public Id. This field is effectively the **primary key** in the **table** (database). - Fibery is not as flexible as in relational database design where primary and foreign keys can be defined. I am sure it is possible to work around this limitation by using JavaScript to “extract” the **primary key** (Public Id) of a **record** in a **table** and use it as a **foreign key** in another **table** , **OR** , it could be very simple if the Public Id field is included as an option of a Lookup Field. I am still thinking what benefit this would have as it is not possible to run queries in fibery as is possible in relational databases. My feeling is these standard relational database terms fits into fibery and could work well for non-technical users and technical users with relational database knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Chr1sG](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/chr1sg/32/3941_2.png) [@Chr1sG](https://community.fibery.io/u/Chr1sG)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/49 "2021-11-06T20:29:47Z")
Couple of thoughts/comments/observations… > [@NicolSpies](#): > > My feeling is these standard relational database terms fits into fibery and could work well for non-technical users and technical users with relational database knowledge. I think Fibery needs to appeal to non-technical users who have no relational database knowledge. > [@NicolSpies](#): > > Fibery is not as flexible as in relational database design where primary and foreign keys can be defined. I am sure it is possible to work around this limitation by using JavaScript to “extract” the **primary key** (Public Id) of a **record** in a **table** and use it as a **foreign key** in another **table** Why should a user want to define (or extract) a primary key or a foreign key? A user wants to know which tasks belong to which project(s). Does he/she care about primary/foreign keys? > [@NicolSpies](#): > > it is not possible to run queries in fibery as is possible in relational databases. Fibery does not support queries in the traditional sense, but in many cases I consider views (when properly configured) to yield the records that would result from execution of a query. ---
**Author:** ![NicolSpies](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/nicolspies/32/4317_2.png) [@NicolSpies](https://community.fibery.io/u/NicolSpies)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 7:59am UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/50 "2021-11-07T07:59:31Z")
@Chr1sG , comments on your comments 😉 : - I have been experimenting with fibery for the last two years modeling an integrated service orientated company process workflow and I am super excited about what I see compared to using TargetProcess to manage agile software development 13 years ago. - I agree about the requirement to appeal to non-technical users. Fortunately these users have no knowledge of relational databases, thus they will not be “confused” by “technical terms”. To them it is just new terms. The sweet spot is to find terms for the abstractions that is clear and intuitive. - Fibery is very powerful and flexible, that implies complexity and being an increasingly “technical” application. - Abstraction is complicated, this is confirmed by the need to change/improve fibery as detailed in the extensive discussions on this subject. I believe this evolution process has to and will continue to keep fibery ahead of the other solutions out there. - The reality might be, to create a company workspace that fulfils all the requirements, will be complex, therefore I believe the fibery partner approach is what is required to get there for those “complex” customer requirements. - I agree with all the comments that the proposed changes improves clarity and useability. I believe it is because it is closer to what fibery actually is as indicated in my “translation” of terms. My post on this is not critique but excitement. - I believe that behind the scenes, fibery is a massive relational database that has an amazing user configurable user interface overlay enabling things that are very difficult to achieve in a formal relational database environment. This fits in with the general move to no-code applications. I trust that my philosophical discourse is not overbearing. I find resonance in similar posts from the visionary @mdubakov. ---
**Author:** ![DarrenLSchultz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@DarrenLSchultz](https://community.fibery.io/u/DarrenLSchultz)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/51 "2021-11-09T06:21:11Z")
I may be a little late to the party here, but — for whatever (if anything) it might be worth — I feel compelled to offer a thought here. Specifically, I urge Fibery to reconsider its abandonment of the “Type” nomenclature/concept and instead do the thing which in my view fixes any of that term’s shortcomings: more specifically, to simply pair and precede it with another word — “Entity” — thus renaming “Type” to the only term which as I see it is proper here. In other words, “Type” can and should be renamed exactly as just described — “ **Entity Type**.” The term works because that’s exactly what a Type is: a Type is a type of entity — it is an Entity Type. A type is not a database. That form of terminology is one of the things that I accepted when using Notion for a great many months and which I couldn’t see was wrong — until Fibery introduced me to the “Type” concept. No, “Type” has never been a perfect term, but it is way better than database, and — when changed to “Entity Type” — is made into as close to perfect of a term as can possibly exist. When I first started with Fibery, I couldn’t grasp the “type” concept, and then after a few days it clicked. “Type” is a beautiful thing that Fibery invented, and which changed and improved my conceptualization of connected information, and I respectfully suggest and urge the adoption of “Entity Type” as the new name rather than the much less apt term “Database.” At any rate, I thank you (Michael) and everyone at and who uses Fibery for this beautiful and life-changing invention, and (I hope) for your time and consideration of this suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![rothnic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/rothnic/32/1850_2.png) [@rothnic](https://community.fibery.io/u/rothnic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/52 "2021-11-09T14:11:10Z")
> [@DarrenLSchultz](#): > > The term works because that’s exactly what a Type is: a Type is a type of entity — it is an Entity Type. A type is not a database. I think a lot of what you said makes sense. Type is a really good name for what a Type is in Fibery at the moment. Entity Type is a little more explanatory of the current UX, but the key issue here is that it doesn’t fit the new UX. A key point to product development is constructing a language that effortlessly describes the UX to as many people as possible. If you look at the new UX, it appears to be storing data. It comes down to, if you were to show the new UX to the target market unfamiliar with Fibery, what language would best communicate what is happening? So, it isn’t that the current language doesn’t communicate well the current UX and hasn’t converted some customers. It just is believed that by reducing the friction in the language and UX, there would be less “grasping” (aka friction) that needs to occur, which would drive a higher conversion/retention rate. ---
**Author:** ![Jean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@Jean](https://community.fibery.io/u/Jean)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/53 "2021-11-09T14:17:12Z")
I’m not sure I’m with you on this. I’m a backend dev for 10+ years and even for me “type” didn’t make sense, sounds way to abstract. TBH, it’s also good to have a bit similar naming with other players in the market, especially when you’re competing with very big ones (like Notion), since most of the time popular ones are tried first. When they look for better alternatives, the term familiarity is transferred and helps a lot the user to get on-boarded and understand the whole thing. That’s one of the biggest benefit of having similar naming/terms with the big guys. ---
**Author:** ![Oshyan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/oshyan/32/11431_2.png) [@Oshyan](https://community.fibery.io/u/Oshyan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/54 "2021-11-09T21:15:58Z")
You did a good job of articulating why you like the term Type, but you did not seem to particularly address why “Database” is so much worse. You just said that it is, but _why_ do you think so? Because it is _technically_ “incorrect”? If so I would submit that this matters very little, as long as the target market understands the intended meaning _in this context_. Someone who is a DB manager/architect/etc. or has some old school database app experience might bristle a bit at the “improper” use, but they will still likely understand it. They are unlikely to be confused about what is meant here. Meanwhile the 20+ million people who are used to the “database” term as now used and popularized by Notion and others will totally, 100%, and absolutely understand. And that, I think, is pretty valuable to Fibery, and is currently missing. ---
**Author:** ![mdubakov](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/mdubakov/32/10_2.png) [@mdubakov](https://community.fibery.io/u/mdubakov)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 1:23pm UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/55 "2021-11-10T13:23:44Z")
Implemented already > [@CHANGELOG: Nov 10 / New Terms (App → Space, Type → Database), New Space Editor, Actions in Headers in Table View, Phone field](https://community.fibery.io/t/changelog-nov-10-new-terms-app-space-type-database-new-space-editor-table-view-actions-in-headers-delete-hide-edit-phone-field/2202): > > This releases transforms Fibery getting started experience and changes App (Space) creation process. sweat_smile New Terms (App → Space, Type → Database) After the [dense and deep discussion around new Fibery terms](https://community.fibery.io/t/in-dev-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/), we decided to stick with this: App → Space Type → Database [Frame 1325 (2) (1) (1)] Space was a natural choice, but Type/Database/Table was not. We’ve decided to replace abstract Type term to a more concrete Database term. This decision still has some drawbacks, but we hope i… ---
**Author:** ![mdubakov](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.fibery.io/mdubakov/32/10_2.png) [@mdubakov](https://community.fibery.io/u/mdubakov)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 6:32am UTC](https://community.fibery.io/t/done-new-apps-creation-flow-new-getting-started-flow-new-terms/2148/56 "2021-12-19T06:32:01Z")
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